Gary Lineker

In this week’s we get to talk to Gary Lineker, one of England’s greatest ever strikers.
Lineker made his England debut in 1984, earning 80 caps and scoring 48 goals over an eight-year international career.
His international goals-to-games ratio remains one of the best for the country. His six goals in the 1986 FIFA World Cup made him the tournament's top scorer, receiving the Golden Boot. 

Lineker was again integral to England's progress to the semi-finals of the 1990 World Cup, scoring another four goals. He still holds England's record for goals in the FIFA World Cup.

Since 1990 he’s presented the flagship programme Match of the Day and is also the BBC’s lead presenter. 

On the podcast, we talk to Gary about...

- Dealing with his 6-week-old son having meningitis
- Moving to a foreign country
- Change of career
- Social media
- Live TV

For more information on The Summit Foundation please visit our website www.thesummitfoundation.co.uk or on socials thesummit_fdn thanks for listening.

Audio production by airaphon

Transcript

Stuart Webber  00:09

Welcome to the client podcast with me, Stuart Weber. In this podcast series we'll be interviewing guests from all walks of life, some famous, some talented, and some just with amazing stories. But what links to them is they've all overcome huge challenges and adversity in their personal lives. This podcast will run alongside my greatest challenge climbing Mount Everest, all in aid of raising funds for the summit foundation with an aim to help those who need a helping hand with their own life challenges. Welcome to the client podcast. Today's guest is Gary Lineker, former Leicester, Everton, Barcelona spurs, an England footballer and the host a match of the day. We all know from that, Shawn, of course. Correct.

Gary Lineker

Crisp flogger?


Stuart Webber

Yeah, the Crips Of course. Well, yeah.

Jonathan Parramint  01:03

I want to start off Gary by talking about the hugely successful transition from footballer to TV presenter, and how much getting used to that new world that you were suddenly in? How long did that take for you to adjust? 

Gary Lineker  01:18

It's hard to certain exact time, but it was very difficult to be honest to the start. It was something I knew I wanted to do even at the end of my kind of mid to late career. So mid to late 20s. I started thinking about, you know, because there's a lot of life after football. So you've got to do something I never fancied coaching or managing. So I just, I was always interested in the media. And I used to sit with the journalists when we joined World Cups and European Championships and radio people watch how they did their stuff, the TV guys and I. And then before I finished playing, I started doing the odd little bit of punditry bit of presenting on on the radio, wrote my own pieces for the observer for a few years. And because I just wanted to get into the journalism side but but then going to do live television presenting a live television shows is vastly different to, to just being a pundit where you just given your views and and that's it's not easy, and there's no way you can practice it. It's not, yeah, you can't practice a live television show, you can sort of, but it's nothing like it because you need a production team in your area, it's too expensive just to do a practice. So radio help, but TV is very different. So I would, I used to, I started presenting really on doing football focus, BBC One on Saturday, lunchtime, and I remember driving home on so many Saturday's thinking, I'm never gonna be able to do this. But two or three years later, you start to get used to it comfortable in the environment, getting used to taking talkback in your airwash you're talking yourself and you know, following instructions in that sense. And, and eventually, I sort of became myself and that's when you become in a situation where you're relaxed enough to know to know how to do it and then you can actually just have some fun with it, which is what it's all about. I was thinking that with the talk back in the year that must I mean, that's on every everything you do I assume when pretty much all I do is live Yeah. Which i i I really prefer the great thing about live television is you know when it starts and you know when it finishes whereas you do recut I've done plenty of Recorded TV and stuff as well but that you know, you get to do things 15 times until it's right even though the first one is probably okay because because you can whereas alive if you fluffy lion or something you just have to bat on Yeah, and it's much better because you know when you're going to finish

Jonathan Parramint  03:47

Yeah, absolutely. And I wanted to talk about what you just touched on there with you didn't fa ncy coaching or management was there a specific moment in your career where you thought I don't I don't fancy this 

Gary Lineker  03:59

I never fancied it right I don't really like training that much let alone watching other people train

Jonathan Parramint  04:05

why was that? 

Gary Lineker  04:06

 I don't know I just like the games like the big moments I didn't really like even games that were not that important like preseason friendlies and so hard to get in. But give me a game and I just I just loved playing but the training aspect of it mostly I didn't like it because I didn't think it was clever enough I wasn't getting anything out okay. Everyone you particularly in the 80s changed a lot now. Yeah, really has. But when I you know when I was first playing everyone did this even all I ever wanted to do was practice my finishing. I didn't mind fitness training hard work all that Absolutely. Because I felt I was getting something out of it. But then you do like five asides and little goals and most players lob does stop but I thought, What am I getting out of this? This thing? Really, it's not like proper practice because the goals time is small and you say no. And then we do a finishing session. And you say you've got 25 players in the squad, While everyone gets a shot, so you have to wait for 10 minutes to get on here, I'd say get a bag of balls and go away with a goalkeeper and eventually experience enough in my career to go to my age and it was Terry Venables when I was at Tottenham and Sectary. Is it okay? If I skip the five side and go over there and take a goalkeeper with me and practice my finishing all day? I'll get much more out of it. And he was he was good as gold with that. So. So that was Yeah, it wasn't I didn't like training. It just frustrated me because it wasn't the train that I wanted to do. Yeah. Yeah. Also, if you don't fancy management after working under some of the managers that you did, you obviously didn't fancy you know. So Bobby and Terry, as you say, and how it Kendall and Gordon Milne and John Wallace, at least in my early days, I was I was I was fortuitous in the sense that I had the right managers at the right time. Yeah, in my career, 

Stuart Webber  05:47

and who, who would you say was the best manager for you? So I'm certainly the best manager but the best one for you. Why? 

Gary Lineker  05:55

Different ones for different reasons. You know, they're very different. I only had one season, how Kendall and he was great, and he's very supportive. I had a lot of time with Terry Venables obviously a few seasons, and he's, I think he was the best coach. Yeah, he's outstanding. He used to think differently to everyone else. Most coaches, your setup is basically setting up the way the team played and the structure and occasionally they pitch in with a kind of individual comment about your game. But Terry was every week, Terry will come to me two or three times a week, whether it's in training, or whether it was just in the dressing room or wherever. And he said, You know, when the balls in that position, what if he tried to run and you went a little bit left, and then you checked out and you went around there? And we would discuss that. And sometimes, that's not really gonna work. But he respected the fact that I knew more about the striker role he did. But he pitched him with things and ask questions and post questions two or three times a week. And sometimes, most of the time, I guess, that's not quite wouldn't quite work, or actually that might be worth trying, or, actually, that's a really good idea. So he would push you on that individual basis. I suspect rather like Pep Guardiola does, yeah, I think they're probably similar in that sense. So if he was probably the best coach, in terms of my preparation for life as a professional footballer, I would set my first manager John Wallace. I was terrified off. He was six foot four and wide has a door and he came down from Scotland with this kind of really, really strong Scottish scary accent. And I remember I was I think I was about like, 17 when he when he arrived and the first time I ever saw him was it was a reserve game. We're playing midweek it was halftime and I came in sat down and jock came through the door this really imposing figure and he didn't seem best pleased and he was we English yesterday. Yeah, a little weak. And I thought crossed is looking at me. And he came over and he marched over and he kind of pin me against the dress and remorse. He was gonna get lazy we English shape.Ignore this. I mean, I wouldn't mind if we were to nil up or not score both goals. But needless to say the second half, I was a gibbering wreck. Hopelessly and then he says to me, he says well, came in after the game again. He went you my office? Nine o'clock in the morning. I genuinely thought I was toast. I thought I was finished. I thought it was going to kick me out. So got in there like a you know, naughty schoolboy outside the headmaster's office but got denied. And he eventually let me come in. Sit down, laddie. So I sat down. I was nervous wreck. And he goes, I just want to see you a magnificent last night. I said, I beg your pardon. I'm sorry. He went magnificent. He said, I just want to make sure you keep your feet on the ground. For Christ's sake, you couldn't tell me last night? Yeah, it was honestly I never slept when I was gonna say what was the evening like, it was very, very good on discipline and living your life properly and not going out drink? You know, and I was I was kind of made me go through that dangerous period for young footballers, you know, like between 17 and 21, where you can go off the rails quite easily, but I wouldn't dare go off the rails with him. So but yeah, I played for some kind of different coaches, but they're all kind of the right person for me at the right time. 

Stuart Webber  09:16

It's interesting because a lot of guests who've spoken to or people who speak to in general who've been successful as often that figure around that age when they're 1617 Especially in sport, when you're sort of on what you leave school it becomes a job straightaway you leave at 16 and bang you you're working it's so often not the I taught me to make this run or told me sir into midfield or talk to me about tactic it's it's the people bit in about remaining humble and life lessons or mentoring as mentor Yeah. And it's I remember as a Wrexham as a young guy where Joey Jones obviously won two European Cups tough player, Liverpool and he was like that, you know, when you start saying with young players have it's nice to be important. It's more important to be nice and yeah, you know, you'd always remind constantly Anyone good and a little bit of other station bank, pull them back down and say good thing about teamsport as well, they don't that's why I think most most most footwear you're always going to get exceptions, but most people is fairly grounded. Because the minute you get above your station, you'll be kind of knocked off. Yeah, I bet is that what is in? Because you'll see, Stuart you're working in day to day football? What is it like now with that managers? Because I mean, you can't do that. Can you with with no, I just got this change, doesn't it? I don't think you can be that. I think there's a different way of doing it, though. I think there's it's about being honest, I think. And I think that's one thing footballers generally want is honesty. Yeah, you know, the moment like the moment in my experience, so that moment they're in your office or whatever the manager's office, it's, they might have the job, but 234 days later, whatever they come around to, Alicia told me the truth, and I appreciate that. I think it's about being honest. But also an issue Summit, Joey used to say it's a bit like a watered down version of the army. Because it is like no other industry, you go out and play for Barcelona against Real Madrid. But the Nou Camp or the burn of others 100 plus 1000 people there. That's tough, because maybe most of the people want you to fail, and they want you to not do well. And we have to repair within football players do that same I'm sure now in your second career presented much of the day. There'll be people I'm sure will be wanting to go after you and all that was dogshit today, that was that. But you have to be prepared for that. And I think it's people's, our jobs, who work with all players, but certainly young players, to also teach them the reality of what's coming. This is coming, whether you like it or not. And we can do it two ways we can either kid you on or we can be sort of brutally honest with you. I think what's changed is when you hear some of the stories back in the day about more physical stuff of putting someone up against the wall or whatever. You can't do that now and society's changed for that and quite rightly, 

Jonathan Parramint  11:47

especially when it's just a compliment weirdly

Gary Lineker  11:52

different times yeah, he's a great man. For him it's my imagine it worked doesn't Yeah, you know, you're talking 40 odd years later about something which sticks with you and

Stuart Webber  12:03

and that's often what the best Do you said about Guardiola, I'm sure that we players who wonder him at Barcelona be team when he started, he will probably still talk about arm and we said this to me. And I've my experience, personally, and that's ultimately what it's about. Yeah, yeah. You know, and I'm sure a lot of them probably at the moment probably don't like him that much. Yes, he pushes them so hard. But at the end of it when they're finished, they'll go as he brought me so much success doing that. Yeah. And that's what's important. Going back to just your playing days. One interesting thing, which you know, isn't massively common for the English player or British player was obviously moving abroad. Obviously, you did it twice. I mean, what was it like, you know, moving to Barcelona. I could be the biggest club in the world. But to leave England, when, you know, there wasn't the technology there is now to keep in touch with your family. Yeah. How was that experience? And what did you gain and learn from that? I think it was a great grown up experience. And it was also it was, it was fabulous. For me, it was difficult at the start, because I didn't know much about

Gary Lineker  13:04

living there. I couldn't speak Spanish. Obviously, you move into an enormous Football Club, where there's this huge amount of pressure. But it was ended up being a brilliant experience. If as few months you know, we're difficult. I thought we'd go there. And I thought it would be you know, penthouse suite in the hotel and we looked after this glamorous side of football. And I remember we got there that first day we met at the airport, we brought back and they there was a guy called Gasper as the vice president I still see still involved in the club, I think. And he heard it owned a hotel group. And he said, Well, you're going to go in hotel precedenti and by the way, subscribe so we can be really nice. This we looked up to so So I remember we checked him we had about 14 cases or everything that we pretty much owned, just got married. And the two of us got there and we were in this whole room no bigger than this tiny little studio. We're in here. And we had to actually buy another room for ourselves next door just pull the back. And then I got a call from Mark Hughes. It also signed at the same time as me. He called through the room and he went he Oh, are you are you okay? I went No, I'm okay. Here we went. What about the room? I went. He got the same. So we were there with that for four months. Oh, wow. rabbit hutch. Which wasn't quite what we expected. But then once we found a little place to live in and uh, you know that. I mean, Barstow is a magical city. It's, it's beautiful, great. It's great food, great people that great. You know, wonderful climate, you got beaches, you got mountains close on. Everything real. It was. It was a great place to live and it was just such a fabulous chemistry between me and the supporters were really sweet for me right to the last even the last season when I struggled because I was played out position by Croix full season but you know, they were very sympathetic and supportive and

Jonathan Parramint  15:00

I go there every year a couple of times a year but obviously last couple years it's been difficult but yeah it's a great place Yeah, I haven't actually watched the game Nukem that's one of my

Gary Lineker  15:12

I've done a tour. Do the classico well I'd love it because it's where people always think it's the it's going to be the incredible atmosphere that for run of the mill league game it's actually the opposite quite right it's kind of very wealthy well to do crowd so they're pretty much all members saucy as they call it. And which means you know, it's quite difficult to you know, you have to be someone so it's like the same people that go perhaps to the opera right? So they are waiting to be entertained before they don't get behind you and I mean, it's changed you'll get a few behind the goal but that's about it. But then you go to the classical and it's totally different so different categories that's the one Yeah, I mean it's unbelievable wait when I played was 120,000 people and I mean, I kept the first one I played it at the Nou Camp was was mad because I scored two goals in the first five minutes I say that noise and noise and never in my life heard anything like it because not away fans so you got 120,000 or and it was just I got goosebumps all and I scored a hattrick just after halftime and then and then the weird thing was they scored with about 20 minutes to go and there was such a silence such a silence that I'd assumed had been disallowed I thought thank God for that soft side. And then they go in a kickoff but it didn't register no because we always get away fans. Always away fans. silence And then they've got another one and then silence again. And then I'm sorry thinking oh no, this would be really bad if they equalize and kill my thinking totally about me. Yeah, but the it was but the atmosphere of those games is unbelievable. I don't think that's the case here with fans as it is that's slightly different in terms of not waiting to be entertained, I think no, it's different. Yeah, very good. Yeah. When the kick when the balls kicked off, it's a massive roar. Yeah, you won't get that in Barcelona. No, no, it was quiet. And then 10 minutes in if you're not playing very well. You start to

Jonathan Parramint  17:13

start whistling Wow.

Gary Lineker  17:15

Wow, that's a bit further down. It has to be quite bad. Why Hank is but I've seen I was blancos. Yeah,

Stuart Webber  17:25

it was an ambition of yours to work in Spain, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. I'm learning Spanish at the moment. I love Barcelona as well. What place it's brilliant. Yeah.

17:34

Good.

Gary Lineker  17:36

Afternoon Catalan quite a big job at the minute. They've got so many great young kids. Yeah, but what club though? Model Club have how they've done it, like producing young players way. So I mean, obviously I lost their way in recent years and got financial mess. But by and large, they've, you know, probably a lot of talent again, now they're going they had that first batch, didn't they? And you thought well, you're never gonna do that again. But now you got GAVI and Patreon. Thank you know fatter and more to others they've they've got they're going to be okay because of the young spiders they're going to save me which is what they were always built on what they got turned into Barcelona podcasts probably when they went against that is when they started to struggle spend a while they've always bought in big players that don't I mean, it's still amuses me a little bit in in world football. That the great players the really big ones, the ones that cost the fortune. Still go to Boston Real Madrid. Yeah, still now. Even that how rich the Premier League is. Yeah, by comparison to the Spanish league or emila League is kind of tailed off now they can't compete. Me Germany never really has bought the big stars and and neither Yes, we spend lots of money and we bought we might buy a player for 80 or 70 but you wait when bappy comes up? Where's he go? Yeah, Real Madrid probably Yeah. Well, you know the ones in morale did bail they've done they've been different because he kind of came through the messier but but yeah, the the superstars still go to Barcelona and Real Madrid. Which which I liked because I went to Barcelona and I went in a time where you can only sign to foreign players. Yeah. So you know, it's a massive compliment. And the thing is, is well, I'm still since since the Second World War, the only English male player to played for Barcelona. So in the first team, so it's it's mad that it's because you know, you look at Real Madrid I got plenty I'm yeah, I'm Steve McManaman. Yeah, Cunningham would get would get you can think of quite a few off the top of your head. Whereas, yep. Obviously my accusers Welsh. Yeah. Steve Archibald was Scottish. And I think that that's either been no British players either. So bathrooms have changed at some point. It's especially now how many, you know brilliant young footballers were producing in this country. It's there's an inevitability about the fact that someone will go there.

Jonathan Parramint  20:00

Yeah, and you move from Barcelona spurs, Madrid. And during that, I want to talk about your son George has a really tough time for you. George was suffering from leukemia in 1991 is that 9191 and 91. He was two months old, when he was six weeks old, and he got a like a little bump on his head. It was hard. It was like a spot, but hard. And

Gary Lineker  20:24

so we took him to see the doctor. And he looked at me when looks like a like a skin condition, I'll get out. They said, Well, I'll get a skin expert. And they came and they said, we'll take a little biopsy and tested to get the results next week or so. So we booked in another appointment. And then in that, in that in two immediate periods, he, there were more bumps start to come in. And then towards the appointment, he starts, you know, seemingly quite unwell. And this is worrying. So we went back in and there were the two guys there. And they said, well, actually, the the results have come back. And it's kind of what we thought, and that's good. And I said, the only thing I'd say I said obviously more bumps, which you'd perhaps expect with this skin thing I said, but he also seemed pretty unwell. They went Oh, really? Yes. So they went, let's look at him. So they took his outfit off, laid him down, and they were feeling him and I noticed myself his glands were appropriate, and they were feet and then I'd never forget it. They just looked at each other. They just looked seriously and they're like a silent 30 seconds and just, I could I went and and they went I think this is something more serious. I know him well. What do you mean? He said, Well, we need to take some tests and you know, do platelet tests and blood checks, but it does look like it might be leukemia. And that was a word that I you'd heard you knew what it was, you know, it was I'd What did I know I was near it as some kind of blood cancer. But it was terrifying. And within half an hour in the back of a ambulance going to Great Ormond Street. And, and that's where he was for seven months, is you know, his mom stayed alongside. Slept every night there I used was there all day and all night and then left it you know, when 10 o'clock at night, because a couple of weeks without football or whatever it was three weeks probably and then and then going back to football was was actually really good. I used to go to train. It was the only time I could stop thinking about it. Yeah. And so I switched off and I played it was a difficult time to play. But it was a bit of an escape. Really. Yeah. But you know, a couple of times we're in there. And they told us the variable unlikely make it through the night. Well, but he's 30 now and he's He's great. He's in good shape. And he's doing really well. And he's so it's a bit of a miracle. Really George, and we were lucky. And there were other parents in there that weren't as lucky that had, you know, the same thing with the same condition didn't make it so. And how was the support at spurs at the time? I was incredible. Terry Venables, right from the start was amazing. I remember I called him after we got to the hospital. And when I got myself together a little bit, got in touch with him. And he says right. He said, um, because I had to go home because there's only space for for Michelle and I went home and he said, I'll come and pick you up in the morning, I'll take you to the hospital, which was great. And he said, Take as much time as you want your family's most important thing and and he was he was great. And the thing is, I don't know where it came from, obviously leak in the hospital or somewhere or they could be ambulance or whatever. But that night, obviously, the time I got home it was 11 midnight, got home woke up in the morning, there must have been 30 people outside cameraman and news reporters and everything. So just try and get through. But the public were incredible. You talk about you know, social media would have been unbelievably supportive, I'm sure. And he used to bring a bin bag of posts in almost every day, like full. I just have letters, well wishing letters, and it was incredible. I mean, it took me I think two years to answer them all. But go through it, but I wanted to get through them because no it was really special what they did. Yeah, yeah. And I think

Stuart Webber  24:27

that's the moment as well when it becomes a level of isn't it? You know, when it's your child, no matter how rich you are, how famous you are cancer doesn't describe how you live it doesn't discriminate and you know for some of the people listening will be going through that and I think it's I know they will and it's an It's tough.

Gary Lineker  24:43

It's It's brutally difficult, but at the same time that within it and even though you're going through it there, there are still good moments in there as well as moments of good news or you. You get to sort of use the situation. Ups and downs with with, you know the OG Steve go through various we think you went through five courses of chemo over a period of seven months. And within that, you know, there's obviously illness and, and surviving the treatment is as hard as anything because obviously, it doesn't just wipe out the good cells it wipes out, doesn't just wipe out the bad cells, it wipes out the good ones as well. So but, you know, he just But why was this hope you just cling to it. And there was always, you know, we just managed to get through it somehow also brings a little bit of faith in society, doesn't it? You know, when you're talking about your bags of letters, and people show the other side, I think it's so easy, so easy to, to think that lots everybody's horrible, but the truth is the vast, vast majority of people in this country, in fact, just people full stop, are really kind, and supportive and nice. And then we get distracted by the few idiots. Yeah. And if you let it that can ruin it for everybody. Because, you know, most people are really pleasant. And, you know, it's like, you can take the social media and then compare it with real life, you might see some people have a go at you, for whatever reason they don't. In the street, I can honestly say in the whatever years, I've been a lot of years that I've been on this planet, but all certainly in the public eye for 40, odd years, whatever it is, maybe two people have been aggressive to in out of either 10s of 1000s, hundreds of 1000s. And the vast majority are just really pleased to see you, you know, want an autograph, they want to picture whatever it is, but they're all sweet and kind and, and nice. Whereas it's so easy to, to think it's you know, most people are horrible, but they're not. They're really not. Yeah. That's so true. Also, also just thinking about what you have to contend with that all of a sudden your life changes on a diagnosis like that. Yeah. And you don't just have that though. You have everyone outside your house at the time. can't even imagine that that's for them outside the hospital every day, all the time waiting for you know, but I don't know what they're waiting for someone picture of me looking more miserable or something? Oh, yeah. I don't know. That's, you know, it's the world we live in. And there's a there's a human interest. And I understand that. And I was also one of the reasons why people knew about it and was supported. So but it didn't make it easy. It's not really what you want at that point. Yeah, but

Stuart Webber  27:28

I mean, thankfully, George, you know, like, say 13 and strong. It's also a great opportunity when you do come out the other end. And when you are a public figure, you can also help raise awareness and exactly when support people see directly but just hearing that, I think is massively important. Yeah, people. Yeah. You're not alone. That's right. And it's true. And you know, obviously,

Gary Lineker  27:52

I've subsequently been involved in numerous charities that have supported because the truth is without people making incredible efforts that they do to raise money. George wouldn't had the chance in life that you know, hurts you know, without, you know, leukemia research, funding, cancer charities, and those sort of people he, he wouldn't need. The lovely thing is that George is now doing stuff. He's brilliant, to pass bike rides, and it's, you know, Jeff Thomas's foundations, and doing and doing really good positive things himself. Because even though he's zero memory of it, obviously, it was just a tiny baby. It's been aware of it all his life, because people know and people want to talk to him about it. Jeff Thomas done some amazing things is great, just amazing what he's done. Incredible. Fantastic. So to break away from such a hugely personal and tough topic, such as George and what you and your family went through at that time. I want to talk about the World Cup in 1990. And

Jonathan Parramint  28:50

the big setback that that involved with the semi final knockout to West Germany, and does that sort of thing give you an added determination to succeed. I mean, it's kind of towards the end of my career. So last chance, really wasn't it to win a World Cup for me.

Gary Lineker  29:08

But at the same time, we I think we really did ourselves justice. So there's part of yes, you know, you can go back with your head held high and and reasonably proud with what we did we were a good side we play some good football. Yes, we were really unlucky in the in the semi fine button with and there's always parts the only game I look back on in my entire career and think if only right, you know, yes, I missed a penalty to equal Bobby chart and record but that's just an individual thing. But this, you know, been if we'd have won that penalty shootout, or if Chris was shot in extra time, hadn't the inside of the post and bounced out between me and play Oregon in himself, you know, we'd have been for 90 minutes away from possibly winning the world cup with again, you know, and we'd have played an Argentinian side that we're kind of past their best and that for players missing and would have had a real chance So it's the only thing I look back on and think if only because, because we didn't woke up to football in immortality. Yeah. And who wouldn't want that? So it was yeah, it was it was it was a tough one. I remember it's people said, What's he like when he was a bit going like that? And it's just kind of silent. That's what it's like, right? Okay. You just no one. What is everyone's your dressing room. Everyone's down. And silent. I think Bobby Robson going around hugging a few people. And, you know, we're all absolutely choked. And you know, we're comfort Chris waddle and Stuart purse because they miss the penalties. But no one feels bad about them. It's just, yeah, feel bad for them. No one can say anything, I suppose in the moment to make it better. Because then it's quiet. And then then eventually we get ourselves together and we get on the team bus. And there's few beers when we have a few beers. We're going round and then we'd had this thing. This is really bizarre. But every every match we played in that competition in the bus ride home. We sang doe a deer. A deer a female deer. Yeah. So I can't remember why

31:09

you

Gary Lineker  31:10

guys are model because it was always guys even more. So then. Then we're in the Boston it's silent prayer, this couple of beers. And then geyser and water. We're at the back. You could just hear

31:20

dough

Gary Lineker  31:23

thing, and it was like, it was like something out of a movie. Because then others joined in. And then by the you know them we're all singlets kind of broke. It broke that horrible ice. That was. And yeah, so it's bizarre how you respond to certain things in like, nothing more bizarre than that way. I don't think but sometimes you need humor don't yeah, that's like, you know, that's it, whether it's a death or something for Yeah, especially I think that's what, you know, perhaps one of our great traits as Brits, isn't it? That the ability to laugh at darkness? And I think it's important. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I wonder how I hope that was the same. That same reaction for the lads in the summer, you know, when you think I hope it's still very young side, they got it and they're gonna be be very competitive. Because there's such a great group of players. Yeah. But yeah, that was, you know, that was

Jonathan Parramint  32:13

I was brought back a few memories that day. I bet. Yeah. Yeah. So one thing that we all face in life is losing friends and family and you lost both parents, you mum in 2015. And your dad in in 2017? Probably not long ago already. Yeah, I was I was. You were very close to them. Both. Yeah. And how, what sort of effect did that have on you losing your parents? It's, it's tough. It's something that, you know, it's something that we should all we will will most of us go through? What's the order that we should go through anyways?

Gary Lineker  32:46

But it was yeah, it was really, you know, I was very close to both them. They were set, they were separated a long time when I was about 2021. But, you know, I had strong relationships with both of them. You know, it was it was tough. I think, you know, when when my mum went, it was, you know, been building for quite some time. And, and it was, I wasn't actually there. When she passed, I was there the day before I was there the morning. And then I went, and you know, it's one of those way, because you live in Isle of Wight. And I used to go down and get the ferry and I was down there up and down, up and down. And I think my brother was there. And it was his huge camera kind of changing it, you know, yeah, to visit us. And I didn't know whether I was pleased that I didn't see the finer things. I'd said my goodbyes. But with my dad, it was different. I was I was there. And actually it was it's quite strange, but peaceful. You know, you just don't if someone is going to die, you just wonder whether it be what they'll be like. And it was just actually quite just the breast just kind of gradually stopped. But it was it's hard going through that those particularly the last few months when it's only a matter of time. And I was up and down to Leicester, Milan still live in Leicester and I was, you know, popping up about four times the hospital called and said, I think you know, you might want to come up here and then you go and then if I remember the last conversation when there was complex mentors, which really moved me I was, you know, that generation, the quite stoic and my dad was quite stoic and, and he said, You know, I'm ready to go, ready? This is no good. He said, This is no good. Don't worry, I'll be fine. And then I remember just about to leave him. I said, I'll be back tomorrow and he went to go he went, I saw he said, I love you. I never heard him say it's the first time I've heard him say my life and I just went I went up to dad and I had to go back quickly. I remember being in the lift and the lift. Everyone came in the lift with me and I was like, like cried and it was really, you know, quite emotional. But he kind of hung on for a bit and then passed and then his There's that awful period, isn't it? I think between between death and the things you have to do as far as the sun organizing few, you know, the funeral, or all these kinds of things that you have to do that you don't even think about, you know, the first thing getting to get the death certificate and they say, Well, I don't really want to do that. But you have to then take it to the town hall or whatever. It is just kind of bizarre experience you think especially nowadays, with everything you think about I do that kind of thing without physically having to be there. So yeah, it's that awful. That's but I think then you get the funeral and then obviously, you mourn and stuff and then once that's out the way then I think gradually you get back but it's tough. I still miss them. You know, Miss yeah, there's some now you know, you know, my dad call after Lester game if the one or something like you know, we'd have a good you know, gonna miss those calls. on a Saturday night or Sunday whenever it is. But you know, it's, it's part of life is dying. Yeah, of course. And what even? Yeah, cheesy, unfortunately, but a lovely moment that you've got to have with them. Yeah, very special is something that will live with me forever. Just coming full circle a little bit in going back to TV. I wondered if there was anything else that you wanted to achieve in TV? In TV? Yeah. I've got a production company now. We make quite a lot of things, which is really enjoyed. That's what I wanted to do. Because I've made so many, you know, part from the stuff that I always do you match that day and things like that. made quite a few documentaries over the years but and you get a bit of satisfaction out of doing that sort of thing. But but it's it's I've really enjoyed being involved in actually making one so it's our it's our business with my partner, Tony runs it and we know and some things I'm involved in and some some things I'm not I got a really good podcast with ourselves with lots of pods on it. And it's, it's a nice successful little business we don't you know, it's it's not a business that we we particularly, you know, building up to try and sell at any point, but it's a business that we just enjoy and my son one of my sons works for it. Harry was doing really well. I mean, he was he was kind of read probably the bright as bright as any of my boys and he was cutting a sharp but he struggled to cope with school didn't like it. Didn't go on to further studies. But he was, you know, always sharp witted, likable, but couldn't cope with education. Just too late matura. And then it was I remember I said to Tony, Tony, I've tried everything with him. Can you give him three months and you know, let him make tea and all that stuff. And if tourists treat like anyone else and get him it's like, and he just blossomed, and Tony's a wonderful mentor for him. And and he's doing brilliantly now. Now. He's a producer in his own right. So furious, yeah, he's done it. Yeah, he's really like, but um, he was always a sports fanatic. He knew everything like an encyclopedia. So I always thought it might suit him. But is not Dr. Waters back. So important, isn't it for people try and find the relevant try so you gotta find it. It's hard, isn't it? If I want you to find what a something you enjoy something that you're good at? You know, I was lucky football's easy. And it makes your mind at four if you fought career football. But you you know, that's, that's not that's not easy in its own way. Because it's unbelievably competitive. So many young people want to do it. But you know, I was I was, I was lucky. But then you've got to find it post football. Now you begin to go into the media. Yeah, you've been done brilliant. Unfortunate to find that because you're I'm sure there's, you've got lots of friends, who you played with or against? Who are there'll be still looking 20 years on after the thing is, in my era, the way the money was fine, but it doesn't, you know, it's didn't compare with what it is now. You couldn't you couldn't make you know, you couldn't make a living forever, forever with that. Whereas now you if you sensible, you certainly could if you're a top player, so that it was that was very different back then. So you had to look at life after football. And in a lot players, a lot of players really struggled post their careers. I mean, people have no idea I think, you know, what happens is, you know, particularly back then you finish your career, what 3233 3435 Probably Max, and then you haven't got a job, there's only so many jobs in football or television, you'd can't do that then you've got some money, you're trying to perhaps invest in a business and that goes wrong. I think the divorce rate of of footballers between the age of 35 and 40 is something like 70% Well, you know, players lose their self esteem the wife gets fed up the players are missing the glory and everything and then they problems they might tend to drink or whatever. And and then suddenly you're in trouble and then you you know divorce you lose half again and then you know that yeah, So it's not easy I was, I was lucky that I found something that I could do. And I always thought if I could crack presenting, rather than just be a pond, if I could crack presenting it will give me longevity. And it will give me a niche because I used to think subarctic tennis and then it was David Gower at cricket and once and I used to think, Well, why is there no, you know, Bob Wilson did it because he's a goalie that doesn't, they don't count. But Jimmy Hill occasionally, but not he was more of a pundit than anything else. And he said, why, you know, why is not someone that's played at the very top has not, has not done this presenting side. So I thought, if I could, if I could crack it, give me a niche and an edge over all the other, you know, football broadcasters, so I'm still going. So that's kind of I definitely does as well, because I think what I like about it without blowing smoke up your ass is you can give, you can ask the right questions. But you can also give insight, because you've also sat in the chair that the people you're asking the question to which sometimes you see presenters, and they will do amazing jobs, especially like when they're live because you can't imagine what that's like, but sometimes they're asking a question of a player and actually can't relate to it whereas you can genuinely go watch I remember Yeah, with Terry Venables opinion as well if I need to. Yeah, I don't I don't I only do it for think it's important. Yeah. And the other the other probably advantages if, you know, you see how, you know, some managers and stuff when post match interviews are difficult they are but and you can see how they're just going to be question, why are you asking me that? Whereas I've interviewed so many managers, and I never get that, because they know that I've, you know, whether it's right or wrong, that's that's another matter. But, you know, there is a kind of mutual respect. Yeah,

Stuart Webber  41:41

I do have a level of empathy. Because you might have sat in the manager's chair in a pressure cooker, that environment to know that. Don't ask not just a media guy just is it how it's very close to the end of the match? Isn't it all? It is actually they're tough. I mean, I always think for you wouldn't want to be interviewed. Now you've just locked you just been battered by someone and you roll off the pitch to the press officer says, you're doing you go and then after a flash interview, and it's like, gonna go to toilet? No, thank you. They're certainly in the Premier League. The rules are so strict about timings after the final whistle, to go and do stuff. And I think just because the whoever's shown it live, though, they want that interview at the right time. I mean, and if you look at the TV pays big money. So yeah. Well, Gary, thank you very much. I really enjoyed your time today. much appreciate it. Great. So my pleasure. And good luck for your future ventures. And thank you for being so open and honest with us. Absolutely. Thanks, guy. That was great. Yeah. Again, great guest very open.

Jonathan Parramint  42:44

Lots of challenges professionally, professionally and personally for him and you know, was really open on that. So, you know, I'm sure people listening would have taken taken a lot from that as we certainly did. Yeah, yeah. I appreciate him talking going into detail as he did about Georgian. And also talking quite sweetly about his mum and dad. Great interview. Great to have Gary. If you want to learn more about the foundation, please visit www dot the summit foundation.co.uk or catch us on social media. Just search the summit Foundation. Thank you for listening