Marisa Peer

In this week’s episode, we get to talk to Marisa Peer, globally acclaimed therapist, bestselling author and award-winning speaker and hypnotherapist. 

Marisa has helped clients, including Hollywood celebrities, royalty, CEOs, and sports stars for over 30 years. Marisa Peer is the author of ‘I Am Enough’ and the creator of multi-award-winning Rapid Transformational Therapy® (RTT) to make these techniques available to everyone. RTT® now trains thousands of therapists each year to positively transform lives.

On the podcast, we talk to Marisa about…

- Her journey to becoming a therapist

- Changing the lives of others
 - Ignoring the haters
 - The education system
 - How to be enough 
 - Her future 

For more information on The Summit Foundation please visit our website www.thesummitfoundation.co.uk or on socials thesummit_fdn thanks for listening.

Audio production by airaphon

Transcript

Stuart Webber  00:09

Welcome to the client podcast with me, Stuart Weber. In this podcast series, we'll be interviewing guests from all walks of life, some famous, some talented, and some just with amazing stories. But what links them is if all overcome huge challenges and adversity in their personal lives. This podcast will run alongside my greatest challenge climbing Mount Everest, all in aid of raising funds for the summit Foundation, with an aim to help those who need a helping hand with their own life challenges. Joining me on all these podcasts will be my friend Jonathan, who is also a trustee of the summit foundation. Jonathan's background is in TV. So a completely different field to me,

Jonathan Parramint  00:47

thanks to an honor to be part of it. So our guest this week is Marisa Peer.

Stuart Webber  00:58

Welcome to the client podcast. Today's guest is therapist and author. Marissa Pierre, welcome to the podcast.

Marisa Peer  01:03

Well, thank you so much for having me.

Stuart Webber  01:05

It's a bit of an honor this one because we're too big fans out. Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, probably little bit nervous, actually, for the first time. Marissa, obviously you've had 30 years as an author, and therapist and speaker, just for people listening. How did you get into that? suddenly become your world

Marisa Peer  01:22

do you know my dad was an amazing head teacher had I can say headmaster in the UK now they don't understand that in America. He was really good at understanding what made children tick. And he had a great passion he was said, you know, believe that every child has a sign on their head saying make me feel important. So he wanted me to be a teacher. And I thought I wanted to be a teacher until I began teacher training school then thought, I don't actually want to be a teacher. Then I thought maybe I'd be a child psychologist and by a quirk of fate, which I love quirks if they ended up teaching aerobics for Jane Fonda in LA, which was very different. And I was just so drawn into the psychology of, you know, eating disorders, because this was in the 80s. But I would say every other girl in my class was bulimia or anorexic or had Body Dysmorphia is much worse now, but it was pretty bad then. And that led me to study hypnotherapy because I was looking for a better way. And so it's a kind of strange thing, because actually, I've come back to be I am a teacher. Now I've taught 13,000 people, my method of RTT for my dad was still here, I'd be so proud. So it's funny that I was going to be a teacher went in a completely different direction, but kind of came back to teaching and work with a lot of unhappy children. So it sort of ended up the way it was supposed to be. But in a very different direction.

Jonathan Parramint  02:46

I read your book on confidence when I first moved to London, because as you saw, I was struggling to fit in. Or just I didn't have my own people here yet. And, and it helped me massively especially, I don't want to talk about the things you have to say along the lines of I am enough, because you say that, that that's a lot of what's wrong sometimes with people. Can you talk a little bit about that, and how you came to realize such a thing.

03:12

I think when I became a therapist, I've always been fascinated by human behavior, what makes people tick. And so obviously, I was working with people who may be a school teacher or a fireman or a police officer. So you know, I just didn't feel good enough. I don't feel smart enough or worthy enough. But when I began to work with billionaires who'd go, yeah, I didn't feel enough or rock stars or movie stars, I kind of realized that this is an epidemic. Everyone at all different walks of life feels this because we'd say would, why would Whitney Houston ruin her life? Why would Amy Winehouse? Why would George Michael with all that talent, or indeed Philip Seymour Hoffman? And it was it was interesting, you should sort of narrow it down. This is everybody's problem to a degree. So if you're anorexic, or bulimic or a hoarder or a compulsive shopper, or a compulsive drinker, I mean, I've worked with hundreds of 1000s of addicts. I've never met one ever who said I feel enough? Those are not enough. I need more drink more drugs, more stuff, more, more likes more followers to feel enough. And so I think it was very good for me to be able to pinpoint why called What Lies Beneath on our issues. Because if you can find out what lies beneath and treat that rather than treat the issue. You give people permanent change.

Jonathan Parramint  04:32

That's what I think a lot. I think with people that I'm not saying. I'm not saying that. Treating alcoholism isn't good. Like I'm not saying going to an AAA meeting, for example, isn't good, but it is it's very often not what the actual problem is. Yeah,

04:46

that is the problem that we're treating the wrong problem. You're overweight. So go on a diet. You keep buying stuff, so stop buying stuff. You keep dating the wrong person. So stop doing that, but you have to look at what is beneath what I call the presenting problem, which is not the presenting problem. I do that because I don't feel good enough. So therefore, if I can feel good enough, I won't have the presenting problem.

Jonathan Parramint  05:12

And have you noticed a difference in problems? Since you've been here? 30 years you've been doing this?

05:17

Yeah, I've noticed a huge difference. I mean, in the 80s, I was working with anorexic, and body dysmorphic women. Now I work with 11 year olds that are anorexic. eight year olds that stop eating fat, because they get fat is really sad how we've made a whole generation of children obsessed with what they look like. And that's all that matters to them. And then we have that whole social media where people get overexposed to fake images to perfection and think that's real. So I think women have a baby now and think, Well, Victoria Beckham and looked like Pennsylvania, she gave birth. So is that normal, and I'm not normal. And I think all the media is making people very ill because it exposes them to stuff that isn't real, what they think is real. I mean, if you watch Friends, for instance, how many waitresses live in an apartment on Central Park? I mean, that's just impossible. Yeah, how many waitresses look like that. And yet, you've got three girls living in Central Park and this amazing apartment. And then you watch something like Baywatch. And you think but that's real, but it's not real. Or Sex in the City where everyone always looks perfect. And they get over their problems really quickly. And so I think the media, I mean, I always say to Girls, stop reading magazines that make you ill don't read that stuff.

Jonathan Parramint  06:38

Yeah, there's always something isn't there? Like the latest? The latest diet or? And of course, they're gonna do if they're on Instagram, and they they see someone looking at looking amazing not, then they don't connect it and think well, that's filtered.

06:52

Yeah, yeah. And then of course, we get all the hate mail now, which is a real new thing that once upon a time, somebody would bully you at school, which was horrible. But you had a window, I go to school at night, and I leave at four, I've got from four to eight. Tomorrow, I'm going to be okay, I can be at home. But now you get bullied on your phone, it can be a 24 hour day thing. And so I think people are getting more isolated and more trolled than ever before. And it's really sad. It's sad for them to do trolling, because nobody wakes up and goes, Hey, my life's amazing. Who can I diminish today? So the epidemic of trolling? I feel very sorry for troll, but I also feel kind of sorry for the trolls, because what kind of person wants to live their life diminishing everyone else? How could they ever make you feel good?

Jonathan Parramint  07:35

Well, if there's a group of people who don't feel enough, it's but still it works a lot in football is a sporting director at Norwich City, the team that I support. And I think that a lot sometimes about footballers, and how a bad performance, for example, can perhaps make them not feel like they're enough? Or if they're going through a bad patch of form. Same thing with any same same with you same with managers. It must affect players the same?

Stuart Webber  08:03

Yeah, I think so I think it when we look at the role that social media is playing. And, you know, we have young players who can be earning a lot of money at 1718 years old, become overnight successes, they go from knowing knowing who they are to playing in front of millions of people on television. And then all of a sudden, what comes with that is a lot of interest. But as soon as things don't go right, or what people perceive as right, that's when they start getting, like you say the hate mail URL. I haven't got enough likes on my social media. So I you know, I've just played a game. And you see it, unfortunately, players, within two, three minutes of leaving a football pitch in front of 60,000 people. They're looking at their phone for validation from complete strangers. Yeah. And I always say to them, guys, you don't know who that is saying good, bad, or indifferent. That could even be a fake person. Yet you choose to listen to that. And I think within football, the role we were trying to constantly play with our young people is, is you got to be very careful who you choose to take advice, who you choose to listen to. And I think that is the challenge we've got with our young people. I've got a young son, who's six, and I look at him and think when this will comes, my only job is to to show him that he is enough and to show him demonstrate that I'm enough and that my wife's enough and the people around him are enough. And you know, it'd be really interesting when we come on to education because I'd love to get your thoughts on the traditional education system that we have. Of how do we get better at demonstrating to our young people that being happy and being enough doesn't necessarily mean being rich, being famous. Being in the public eye. That's just

09:54

peripheral really? Yeah, all my clients are rich and famous will say this is I have my life again. I be rich, but I wouldn't be famous. And they also say this in that I want my kids to be rich and famous. I've got a client now who's so wealthy, so I just want my daughter to be a nurse. I'd love her to be a nurse. I don't want her to go into this life because that life is so damaging. And we think that fame damages people. But actually, the truth is damaged. People really want to be famous. So they'll feel enough so many damage, people are drawn to fame, because they want people to like them. And then I know they get famous. And then they think, Oh, actually, I still feel exactly the same. And now you're famous, you can't hide. So we saw Britney Spears shaving off her head and having a meltdown. Then you think, gosh, yeah, actually, if you got some issues, being famous doesn't solve them. It brings new ones.

Jonathan Parramint  10:47

Yeah. Do you think there's an age then? Because a lot of this seems to come in childhood? Do you think there's an age then where a lot of traits and behaviors are set out already? So when we go out into the world, as I don't know what that age would be, but we already have soaked up so

11:06

much. Yeah, well, you're wrong. Yeah. A lot of studies say your character, your relationship with money is set, by the time you're seven, your relationships, the way you'll react will is set by the time you're fired. The Romans used to say give me a child until he's five or maybe it was seven. And I'll give you the man. So and I think the Catholic Church said the same thing. So your whole character is set very, very early. It doesn't mean you can't undo the damage. But it means as a parent, you really got to work on what's going on in those formative years that you could influence in a good way.

Jonathan Parramint  11:41

Yeah, I was think that was school. And I think back to when I was at school, and how quickly you feel inferior to other kids. It's like if someone else has got a better pair of trainers than you Yeah. Or they've got something that you haven't gotten, and how, what effect that can have over to you then go home and think. Or you say to your parents will whine I need this now? Because I need to be on the same. But that's not right. So they're in a difficult position, because I think we'll do I do I do that? And and they probably do. Because they think Well, that'll they don't want me or whoever it is to be left out. And again, that's not that's not the issue, that the trainers aren't the issue. It's the not feeling like you fit in. I think I can I can remember at school. So many, me so many other people, you think that that same, that same thing, you don't feel on the same level. And that's so early to feel that is scarily early.

12:41

Yes. So early. And kids do know that because they're always comparing themselves. And of course, everything you want in life without question is because of how it makes you feel I want the trainers because I want to have the same lunch as other kids. So that I feel the same. And the trick is to get the feeling without the thing. So as a parent, when you can't afford the trainers, you have to say, but how would you feel if you had those, and you could have the feeling without the trainers. It sounds hard. But it's tough to be a parent because we live in a world where everything is about what we own and what we have and what we look like. And schools actually now I'm as a head teacher's daughter, but schools do a terrible job. Because they always reward achievement and not effort. My father's do that. So wrong. You should reward effort. The kid that spent the longest time writing the essay should get the prize even if it's not very good. Because kids are naturally gifted at sport or art or math when every prize without trying and then that teaches other kids. What's the point? Yeah, I never win. And I think one of the big things schools could do is stop rewarding achievement and reward effort. Because that will teach you Oh, if I try really hard, I do get a reward, even if what I tried wasn't perfect.

Stuart Webber  13:58

Yeah. I find that fascinating because I believe it's the same in sport. You know, in a league, there's only one team can win it. Yeah. So there's 19 Who are disappointed. There's only one team can win the cup. Yeah. And it's about looking for wins. Within the journey. Yeah. So it might be okay, we finished fifth in the league. But we produce more minutes for young players. And we have, you know, the culture of the group improved. You know, we run further than we did last year, whatever it is about that constant. There's wins within a win. And rather than in a school, there's 20 children having a running race on sports day. And there's only one can win

14:43

it. Yeah. And yes, if you if you give someone a prize, one person gets a prize and 30 kids don't get a prize and we got to get away from that winner takes it all because after all, One Direction didn't win X Factor, but they've done better than all the winners put together. Eminem didn't win when he went to a rapping contest. He didn't win. He came second, but he's probably the most successful person that was ever in that concert. So we got to stop teaching kids that we everything is about winning, because it's not always about winning, and you don't, and sometimes you win, but doesn't even make you happy, like look at people who've won on Dragon's Den and said it was actually a disaster. I wished I hadn't won because it didn't work out for me.

Stuart Webber  15:27

Yeah. Yeah, no, I think it's so true. As interesting as a rugby club this week. Leicester Tigers were top of their league at the moment, but they have a saying there, where it says standards before results. So first thing is where are our standards? Right? Rather than Are we one? Yeah, but the standards weren't right. And therefore, okay, that was, again, a fascinating way that they, they look at it rather than just result result result. And then in terms of the education, because this is something I'm incredibly passionate about, when it's part of the way we've done the charity is, I was eudaemonia a failure at school for sure. Or you wouldn't, the education system would buy hard even when I was in school or finish school 22 years ago now. As a young guy, oh, he's fought this, how we're taught isn't correct. They're taught teaching 30 kids the same, treating us all the same as if we learn the same way. And if when you get older, and you learn about the different, you know, within my work learning styles, and you read lots of different books and stuff that think to myself, why are we not better? Why aren't the stuff that you talk about? Why aren't we teaching this within school? So rather than a geography lesson, which may be important for some children, but I'll be honest, I've got Google Maps, I've never needed it yet. So it's a bit like I need to get from here to you know, Stoke, I'll just type it into Google Maps, and a computer can take me there. So I don't really need to know how to read a map, in my opinion, yet, the skills of feeling enough about dealing with adversity around finding what is that makes you tick. We don't talk about that do in school? We don't we don't teach that.

17:11

No, we don't. I mean, actually, Norway and Finland are really interesting, because they're schools that say you only have to go to the lessons that you like, which you think would be really bad. I remember years ago, my father had a kid in his school who was really good at computers, he said, you can just spend all your time learning about computers, you don't have to learn Latin, what's the point of learning Latin, and my father was very good at noticing your gift. And the thing with kids is we say, got to be good at everything, you got to be good at everything. And that doesn't work. Because if you're good at science, by nature, you're probably not going to be very good at art. And we have to recognize that when you make kids, a jack of all trades, you make them actually a master of none. And the schools that are saying just go to the lesson to like, are actually reducing kids that are really gifted in their area of excellence. And so I think we are learning that, you. But the thing is, when you make try to make kids good, and they go, I feel terrible, because I'm not good at math. I mean, who cares? I'm terrible, cuz you can give them even get a calculator. Nowadays, we don't need to be good at all this stuff. And we're only nurture talent and say, Look, that is a talent, but it is changing because I just created this thing called the I can't I can't do this five day challenge. We've got it in 600 schools in England, 600 schools in America. And the results are amazing. It's all about teaching kids to have a cheerleader in their head that believes in them. So they shut down the critic that says I can't. And they have a cheerleader, and actually, we've been making physically making the cheerleader for them. And it's been amazing because it's made them believe in themselves. And that's the thing you know, so many kids think I need to impress my teacher, I need to impress my dad, I need to be good at accounting because my dad's an accountant, I need to be good at sport because my dad's good at sport. And actually, you just need to be you and you're not supposed to be your dad. Nobody supposed to give birth to themselves. Our kids have talents of their own that often nothing like ours, but we need to celebrate what they do. And stop trying to make them like us or like other people or like their siblings.

Stuart Webber  19:15

Yeah, it's amazing, I think because so many when you work, you know, in an industry like, you know, like I would in terms of football is I got a little boy, he loves football. Brilliant. Bevin goes, Oh, I bet you want to be a football. I'm like, when I respond with. I just want him to be happy and be the best he can be. They look at you like you're strange. And they're like, oh, wouldn't it be your dream to be a footballer? No, because it's not my life. I just want him to be happy and healthy. And he came home a couple of weeks ago, bless him and said to my wife, he goes, Mommy, I I want to learn the piano. They're doing a lesson in school. I'm not a music fan at all. So I'm sort of piano thinking to myself in my head. And I thought, How brilliant is that? that he feels safe enough to come and say that. And I'm like, Well, firstly, what he wants to try and do best luck to him. I can't help him. So if he comes by who's gonna have to let me read this music? I'm like, I can only just read words, let alone music. But, you know, it's that but how people automatically think that because I work where I work. Oh, you must want him to be that. Well, no, yeah. You know why put that pressure on me just wanted to be happy.

20:26

I love the fact that stings son is a policeman, and he loves me. And I was I felt very sorry for David Beckham's kids, because everyone expects to be great football as like him. And that's really hard to say, Oh, you're not as good as your dad. And I know the eldest son was nasally. Let him go. And that must feel terrible because you're living someone else's dream. And actually, that's one of the problems I see with people that they're living someone else's story. Your dad was Frank Sinatra. So surely you can sing like him? Actually? Uh, no, I really can't. Your mom was stunning or your I saw that with Victoria cellars. That's what it looked like Bridgette winged and be as funny as Peter Sellers. And she said, I got the worst of both of them. Because I don't have either those talents. And people just are disappointed. And that's really hard when you have a famous pair and that are really academic parent or a successful parent. That's really tough because you expect to be disappointed. And often people are disappointed they go, Oh, your mom was so gorgeous. Oh, your dad was so funny. I saw that with Julian Landon, when people can go wow, God, I loved your dad. He's like, you know, I couldn't even mourn my dad dying because everyone else acts like he was their dad. And my dad was disappointed in me. And he wrote a song about Sean, but not about Julian really damaged kids. I think coming from famous parents is really hard for children. They all go into therapy, because they have that feeling of I'm not enough because everyone thinks my mom or my dad is amazing. And I'm not as amazing. And I see that all the time famous people's kids going into therapy, but it's all the same thing. They just don't feel worthy.

Jonathan Parramint  22:07

Also, from what you were saying earlier about scores, it's like how quick we are to comparison, I read a quote with the famous quote, that comparison is the thief of joy. And I really think it is, but it's how quickly we are to that. That's immediate. That's

22:21

why for children, they know they've got a bigger house, they've got a nicer car, they've got more money, they've got nicer uniforms, they have nicer lunches, children work out very, very quickly in the home and in school. And it's such a shame that we actually do that comparing your sister could read when she was two, your cousin never got food all over the table. So parents do it too. Why aren't you like someone else? And that's, that's where then not enough to start. So we got to teach parents and schools to stop doing that.

Jonathan Parramint  22:53

When did you start to realize these things? Were you aware of these things when you were at school? Or did it come much later?

23:01

You know, looking back now I think being a head teacher's daughter, although it wasn't great at the time when when I went to my father's school, he was the head teacher. I never felt like other kids. I felt like a freak and both my brother and sister went to private school. But I didn't because I wasn't the smart one. But now I look back into get ready prepared me because I understood very quickly what it's like to feel different. And when you're a kid and you feel different is the bane of your life, the only kid with red hair, the first or last kid into puberty, it's really horrible for children to feel different. Because when the minute we're born, we're wired to do two things, find connection and avoid rejection. We're always looking for that. But when you feel different, it's hard to find connection. And it's hard to avoid rejections. I think my childhood as odd as it was set me up to really understand what makes people tick. What makes children tick what makes unhappy people tick. And I always wanted to simplify therapy, I found the word of therapy was a little dishonest because it will say well, you've got bulimia that's very complex, therefore, you need complex. So you have depression that's so complex. You must have long, complex women and it's not true depression is very easy to fix. Bulimia, I fix people have that in two sessions, not all the time. But if you can look at what's really going on and fix that. So I always wanted to make therapy simple. And I think my own childhood gave me such an insight into the fact that you know, I literally lived in a house with a white picket fence. My mother was beautiful. My father was academic, but it was all crazy inside and to realize it is it looks good. It's not good. But I was glad I had my time because it gave me that I'll show you ability of course. And that as a parent that very hard not to give everything to your kids. You have to really kind of let them do it themselves. And that's very difficult when you have a lot you want to make their life easy but don't make their life easy by giving them every anything,

Jonathan Parramint  25:00

and you have a daughter How, how was that with with her growing up? Because you must have been Ultra aware

25:06

of Yeah, I mean, it was interesting for her because people think because I'm a therapist, she had a permit, and they say, oh my god, you're so lucky to have your mom and you'll see your mom's amazing therapy. They say to me, Wow, you know, your daughter, so lucky. But she doesn't see it like that, because I was fixing everyone else. And she's an artist. She's very different to me. She's impulsive. She's incredibly messy. But she's an artist in her soul. And I never tried to say you should be a therapist. I never ever said why didn't she do what I do? Just doesn't interest him. I always thought she was my teacher. And I always try to celebrate the difference. You know, it's so hard when because first of all, messy people don't see mess or trying to make messy people tidy is a complete waste of time. They don't see it. And actually is very interested. I mean, I saw all these people coming through the door that looked perfect, but I always saw the damage inside. And that's what she paints are people with their makeup coming off their faces. And she does very good. Quotes vision. One reason is that the heart is a fragile thing. That's why it's kept in a cage. So she's very good at looking at damage and making paintings with great quotes. But I love the fact that she's not like me, and I said, you know, you're my teacher, or you're, you're not supposed to be like me, because I think that's the worst thing you can do try and make someone grow up in your shadow, you're going to go into the family business, you're going to be a doctor, or a lawyer or an accountant when didn't want to do that, you know, one of the things I find a lot is people bring me their kids and got my kids got terrible migraines, it all turns out, they don't want to play the piano. They don't want to be a nice guy. They don't want to be a championship swimmer. Well, listen, your kids getting migraines, because they'd either go but but it's important to me as if it's not important to them. And it's very hard to have parents give up their dream of what they want their child to be and do. It's like saying, you know, I only have one child, what if you never have grandchildren? Well, that would be ashamed, but you can't have children to give you grandchildren, you can't have children. So you can't move across the other side of the world. You know, to be a great parent, you have to make your children as independent as you can as fast as you can, which I failed at terribly. So you have to give them independence and high self esteem. And we're so dependent. It's very hard to give our kids independence without thinking we don't care about them.

Jonathan Parramint  27:35

I my experience from from that was more sort of teachers as opposed to parents, I think my my parents were pretty good at giving us freedom. I have a sister, we had freedom. And I think most people probably suffer from a lack of self esteem, I would say. But I think I've always been, I think quite luckily at the higher end of it. I think it's always been okay. But I remember having a teacher at school who would always had something about not being good enough at maths. And I suffered I tell my mom, like I tell got a stomachache every night, every night. And and it was that was the issue is because I'd panic around numbers and probably still do a bit today, actually. And that shocks me when I think back now. So I think I feel sorry for myself as a kid, because I think I wasn't really aware of what it was. But I think I definitely experienced it more with with teachers. And that wasn't the only teacher I think I had like something around teachers because they were like what Stuart said earlier, I think it's just sort of set up incorrectly. And you don't get the freedom that you talk about and the independence as a kid you definitely don't get that school is so controlled. I think that's really interesting that it can come in, in different forms to you know, it might not be parents, but it could be teachers. It could be like, football coaches, or,

29:05

you know, yeah, because we teach people the wrong thing. If you are looking for yourself as him anywhere outside of yourself, you're looking in the wrong place. Yeah. And that's what we should start with self esteem is what you think of you so you can't find yourself esteem outside of you. You have to find it in you. And so a lot of things we do wrong with children as you teach them. Self esteem comes from being getting great academic results or sporting was or being good or being tidy and that's outside of you. And then we teach them that they've got to live up to our story. And if you can just do those two things. Look for yourself as the menu it's not outside of you and don't live up to someone else or your mom was always let down by man your father always said I've got I've got a migraine. That's the price you pay for running your own business. There's no holiday pay. You're teaching your children something incorrect, even people they do that they say, you know, my kid, I'm teaching them to earn money. So they got to put out the garbage and wash the dishes. Well, that actually is not right either because you're teaching them do menial, horrible jobs to get money. So you got to empty the rubbish bins and wash up and they didn't want to do that you got to try and find something they're good at, oh, you're good at cooking. So you can cook even if you make a massive mess. You know, we often think we're helping our kids. And so you got to weed the lawn, or rake the leaves or do a paper round at like, you know, five in the morning in the freezing cold? And isn't that great? Because you're earning money? Well, it is. Except you are teaching them to earn money, you got to do something you hate. And one of the biggest problems I see with adults is I hate my job. You know, I talked about depression earlier, but one of the key causes depression is failing to follow your heart's desire. That's a big factor in being depressed. And doing what makes money I'm in the family business. I'm doing what I thought I should do. And I don't like it. But we forget that the simplest things even when we say to kids, I can't find the money that's so confusing to kids because nobody finds my I don't know where the money is coming from and money doesn't grow on trees. And I want never gets well that's I want gets a lot. If you have a burning desire, you want something you're prepared to go and get it. But we say I don't ask, I want never gets and we really confuse our children with such strange language without understanding that for them, they take everything literally. Yeah, saying I can't find that I don't know where the money is coming from is very confusing to children. Whereas if you settle it, if you really want that toy, got to earn 100 stars, and what could you do? I mean, yeah, you could empty the dishwasher. But what else could you do that you like? Could you help me do some filing? Could you do something that you're good at, and now you've got the stars, and now they've learned Oh, I can monetize a talent. And that's how you make children, amazing adults, you teach and they can monetize a talent.

Jonathan Parramint  32:02

I think that's fascinating, because actually, that it is true that you are taught from a young age that you have to do stuff that you don't like to. And also like you said earlier that children that they're what what was if you can remind me what you said about their attitude towards money is already set by

32:18

their five.

Jonathan Parramint  32:19

It's fascinating to me.

32:20

Yeah. And many people do they say no, my mom took me to a store and she said, Go and get some chocolate. I came out with this huge box and she was like, had you Who do you think you're never show me up again? Don't ask You're so greedy. That's outrageous. And kids like oh, so if I get what I asked for something, I get ridiculed and it's upset my parent and they're here they go, do you know how much I've got to work for that. And you know, I work a lot with people who have terrible problems leaving food because it fibers don't lead to much that costs Jehan long your mom spent making that think of the starving children in Africa. And by five we've ruined this natural goodness, I've had enough now like in a highchair You can't force feed a baby, people go back because I was made to sit at the table with this congealed bit of fish. Until I ate everything on my plate. My parents had the clean plate club and I got such praise for eating and eating and eating. And now I can't leave food. And we forget that our kids come onto the planet with all these natural abilities, like knowing when they've had enough not wanting to eat more. And then purchasing that Oh, I love to see you eating. You're such a good eater. And then they get very and then we have a whole generation bill you can't leave food and I don't even know what fully is what is that I need dessert after my dinner because that's what I was taught that's a reward or giving people chocolate all the time. And now they they've got this wiring that says it's my friend, it makes me feel better. So I think we really have to take a step back and look at what we've done. You know, for instance, I never call food good or bad. Oh, you being good. His chocolate. Even bad. There's no chocolate. Oh, let's have an ice cream. I just call food food. That's a mango. That's Hermus and of course I gave my daughter chocolate but I really had to work hard not to say this is a treat because I don't want her to think I'm so miserable. Oh yeah, tree, I'll have loads of chocolate and because it doesn't work I now need loads more chocolate. If we're gonna teach people to dialogue just a little bit better. That would make a huge difference.

Jonathan Parramint  34:31

fascinate Yeah.

Stuart Webber  34:32

That's amazing. And do you think that's the same relationship that we're having in society now with drugs and alcohol? Is that the dare I say the adult version of the reward of chocolate it makes me feel better for five minutes. Oh, now I need a bit more because that one Mars bar maybe wasn't enough. Maybe I need

34:52

to. Yeah, so it's two things. Again, it's looking for your enoughness outside of yourself if you don't feel enough For you will always need more of something that can be drugs or drink. It can be purchases, it can be sexing be anything. But if you don't feel enough, you need more. So now we've got a generation where they don't feel enough and they need more but they're looking for the more outside something out there will make me feel better. And all addicts feel inadequate, addicts are often very fragile, and they feel inadequate, so they're looking for more so they know that I'm having a bad day, a glass of wine won't really help a tub of Ben and Jerry's will only help for a few minutes. And they logically know that but you know, we forget that we're, we're run by emotions, your feelings and those real thing you have. And you can't Netflix or Krispy Kreme donor, or beer away your feelings because they just come back. And yet we're taught that all the time having a bad day, have a beer, having a bad day have a takeout you're having a bad day. Use medicate yourself. And so on the one hand, we teach people that you know, whatever you're feeling, push that feeling down, because feelings tend to start in the stomach. So push that feeling down with something. And then we teach them Oh, look, you're out of control. You're fat, what's wrong with you have gotten yourself discipline. So I feel very sorry for overweight people, because they're taught by the media every day, we have happy meals and fun size. And we have chocolate called Heroes and celebration. So it's like, okay, that's gonna fix me. And then when they eat too much, we ridicule them for not having any control. No babies want going, oh, I need cake or I've got a too much cake. I hate myself. You can't make small children have you got to charge you know, in the high chair, you can make them overeat. So I think we really stick it to people twice, we tell them this is gonna make you feel good. And this is wonderful. And then when they give into it, we stick to the beginning. Why do you got yourself control? What's wrong with you? So I think the media has made people really unhappy. No, and I spend a lot of time in Africa. And you just don't see that they're, they're not looking for stuff outside themselves. I help with a children's home in Africa. And those kids have got nothing but they're actually very happy because they haven't got the media to say you need Nikes you need an iPhone, you need these right trainers. So they they are much more self contained.

Stuart Webber  37:21

It's amazing. Say that about Africa, I think we we had a previous guest, Delia Smith, and we have a similar conversation and I spoke about I climbed Kilimanjaro, which is in Tanzania. And I said the thing which I took most from that when I came back was there was 30, porters, helping you climb the mounting for tents up cooking your food, etc. And they are the happiest people I've ever met in my life. And we would class as Westerners privileged Westerners. They've actually got nothing. They earn $700 a year. Yeah, Alan was speaking to one of them. He's become a friend. And I said to me, you're such a such a happy, happy man. We're life. Or we're walking up the tallest mountain. And he goes, he looked at me, he goes, Well, yeah, cuz I live in paradise. Look what I've got, every day. Look at my team, my brothers that I work with. And that simplicity, it blew my mind that you know, I was away for eight days. Honestly, it was like, That is amazing. Because it wasn't a Oh, I better say this or whatever. He genuinely in his eyes, is not ruined. By life. It's like, I have the best life in the world. I get to take people and change their lives by taking them up this mountain in the most beautiful part of the world. With my friends. Every day. We're outside every day we have no we have no hassles, kept saying to say Hakuna Matata? We have no worries. And it was amazing. You know, and I was like, I remember like the flight back going, Wow, we kick off with the Wi Fi is a bit slow in hotel, don't we? Or no one's put the pillows up, you know, and knew, you know, when you have to check yourself and go. Now there was real happiness there. And we would class. If we spoke about these people in our country would go, I have nothing today. They actually think we have nothing. When I explained my world of the work and you know, we lose a full match. And I showed him some stuff of luck is what people say about me. And he was like, why would you want that you should move out here. Just leave it. And it's like, yeah, you're right. But no, it's amazing, isn't it? Well, yeah,

39:38

cuz one of the you know, I wrote this thing called 26 rules of your mind. It's all over YouTube. But one of your rules of your mind is whatever you look for, you're fine or whatever you look for, you're getting more of. So if you look for and I've seen that what makes you happy they go the the weather, the sun, the ocean, the mountain so if we could all just remember Okay, whatever I look for, I'm going To find an angle to get more of so one of the things to really help is look for what's good. What's great about this, what even with COVID, what's good about it? Well, I got to stay home with my kids, I got to realize what was important community, I got to realize that shopping isn't a big thing. I loved it in LA, there was no traffic on the freeways. I've never seen that before. Now, it's all back to how it was. But that ability to notice, you know, your mind goes where you take it, and it can't go into two lanes only one lane to decide which lane you're going in. And stay in that lane. And, and I will get very confused. I want to be thin. But I can't give up cake. I want love. But then what if they tell me I want to be but what if it go I want to be successful? What if it's too hard, and I don't know who my friends are. Now you've got your mind going into two lanes. You got to keep your mind on what you want, and what you don't want. And if you start by focusing on what was good about anything, even something terrible, you'll notice that actually helps you a lot. So what's good about not being academic? Well, you don't have to be an academic person. You can be something else what's good about not realizing your dream. There's another dream and we can all dream another dream. Remember a

Stuart Webber  41:14

great saying which I've used a lot at work is a problem is an opportunity in disguise. Yeah. Oh, boy. It's truly like, say COVID. So it hits you've got the Prime Minister, right, you're about to sit at home now. And like you say which lane you go in. And the lane personally, he was like, oh, there's an opportunity to get fitter. There's an opportunity to read more, there's an opportunity to connect, there's an opportunity to look into climbing Mount Everest, I've never had the time to jump off the treadmill of life and see how do you do that? And 18 months on, it's like, oh, I'm well and truly on that journey. And yeah, I think that's so powerful. But when we, when we talk about people who have, you know, whether it's an eating disorder, and these these, you know, alcoholism, all of these different unfortunate things on a practical level, how, how do you change that person? So if someone's been, you know, abusive with alcohol for maybe 10 years? Because I suppose for people listening, it's easy for you to say it's easy for us to say but how, what's the sort of practical way? Do you do that without obviously, I appreciate every person is different, and every case is different. But like how in a simple form? Do you change not eating that cake? Not drinking that beer, not abusing that lady, whatever?

42:36

I think when you go to conventional therapy, they start with what's wrong with it? What's wrong with you that you're an alcoholic? What's wrong with you that you can't leave pies when What's wrong with you that you're a gambler, and the first thing you think you'd lose is what's right about it? What do you mean? What do you get from it? Oh, well, when I eat cake, I get I feel calm, it kind of tranquilizers. Me. I've got some I know it's there. I know, at the end, I can go home and eat a big cake. And it's going to be I know that I'm going to out and if I drink that drink, it gives me some confidence. I know if I gamble for a minute. I mean, the book is likely that I'm gonna get all this money and all my problems are solved. So I think we should stop looking for what's wrong with it. And as what's right with it, what do you get? What does it give you? Then you think, Oh, if I can work out what it gives me and find another way to get there. So drinking gives me confidence gives me false hope. But can I find that another way? Because you can't just take away their anger, they go Don't drink anymore, because they say, I miss it. I felt very social. And I had a drink. I bonded with other people I was in, go to parties and I was hanging outside the toilet because I know those people are going to do a line and they're the ones I want to be with. But when you can ask them a different question. I never say what was wrong with you. I say what happened to you? What happened to you? And they go, Well, you know, my dad took me to the pub when I was 16. We got very bonded, he never paid any attention to me. And then when I could drink, we became buddies. And now he's dead. But I still go to the pub because I've got this feeling that alcohol helps you bond. Well, that's good. But could you find another way of bonding? One never thought about that? Well think about it now. And I think most therapy comes at it with what's wrong with you. And if you come at it with what happened to you, how did that impact you? And what are you getting from what you're doing because you can't take away all the getting unless you give them something else? And I was right I called my new book, tell yourself a better lie because we all lied. I need alcohol to cope. I need cake. I've got a Master's of emails. I need a big packet of crisps and then I can do it. And I think most people can understand Oh, but could I do it without Of course I could. I'm just lying to myself and there's nothing wrong with lying to yourself except you should tell yourself a battle I can't remember I've got an amazing memory. I can inhale cake and get fat or I could So I've got a fantastic metabolic rate. So really a great therapist or at least a great RTT therapist understand your job is to give people freedom and empowerment. And you can't do that when you start with what's wrong with you. Even with kids. Why are you so difficult? Should be Hey, what's going on? You're a good kid. But you just pushed your sister Odin ago, you said she was your favorite. I said she was my favorite daughter. I thought you liked him more than me? No, I don't like anyone more than you. So the whole punishment and shaming and blaming doesn't work. You're bound to get that wrong as a parent, because you got to also understand you're not perfect. Whenever you look at behavior and start with what are you get from that? What is the bully get from being a bully, they they feel so bad about themselves? If they diminish another kid, that's the only way they can feel equal. So instead of saying you're a horrible bully, discussing what you get hate, what do you get from but I feel bad because I'm making someone else feel bad because I feel bad. Okay. But is there a way you could feel good without bullying? And there always is. So I think it really helps if you're an addict to start with? What's good about it. That sounds weird. What's right, what do I get from it? And could I get it without drinking? Because the answer will always be yes, you could metal who say go to aaa, aaa without bashing, it doesn't actually have a high success rate has a high connection rate. The connection you get from being with other alcoholics helps you not drink, because often you drink to escape, or to connect. And so again, I think AAA was very clever, realizing that alcoholics feel disconnected, and they can connect them. But you can do that in many, many ways.

Jonathan Parramint  46:47

Yeah, I've been faster. I was listening to Paul Gaskell and talk about his struggles with alcoholism and how the worst thing that you can do to him is take away all alcohol. Yeah. And is it and he said, I've read an interview with him where he said he's just has, when he's not drinking, he has drawers and drawers full of sweets. Yeah. And so it's just transferred on to that.

47:11

And that's what they do in rehab, too. If you go into rehab, they give you tons and tons of sugar to replace the sugar. You're missing from alcohol.

Jonathan Parramint  47:19

I think that's crazy. I know there's a book out there that I can't remember the name of it. But is it subject is quitting smoking, and it advises you to continue smoking throughout the book, continue the habit. But by the end of it, you won't want to. And I know a couple of people have said it does work because it the thing you don't want is to take the first page it says right stop smoking, it's not going to solve it. Yeah, you need to learn you need to do it as you learn. Yeah, it's fascinating to me, how the thing that you're struggling with is the worst thing that you could take away. Really?

47:53

Yeah. So when you change the way you look at something, what you're looking at changes and, and you know, that's our job really to teach people, you have all the answers inside of you. But you got to look at something differently and dialogue with yourself. And I think just being able to dialogue with yourself, makes such a profound impact. You know, we're all taught, hey, if you want a good job, learn how to dialogue with your customers, when a great marriage, learn how to dialogue with your partner, but the most important conversation you'll ever have is the conversation you have with yourself. And if you could just learn how to dialogue with you. It would change your license or going away, I'm no good. And I can't do that, you know, if every person woke up, especially every kid, and every day that I'm significant, I matter. I'm enough and I'm lovable, that would change everything. But they wake up going, Oh, I'm not good. And I look terrible. And I didn't get that right. And I haven't prepared for this. And so we wake up and we straightaway go into diminishing behavior. And any therapists will tell you the truth. There's nothing that will raise your self esteem like praise and nothing will diminish it like criticism. So you have to learn to praise yourself a lot. Although we're taught that's very arrogant. It's not it's very necessary. Especially now. And most of us work for ourselves didn't have a boss saying he did a great job today, I noticed something amazing. So if you can't learn to praise yourself more, and criticize yourself less, you're going to be disadvantaged. It's not about being arrogant. It's about saying, I'm really good at this. So this is my gift or I did something great today. And not if you again if you give someone else am I okay? Do you like me? Yeah, once you give them that power to make you feel good, you give them the power to take it away? Anytime they like and then you've made no progress at all when you can do it. When I often say to kids, what are you good at? And they'd go I didn't know you're gonna think of something What what are you great at and they'll always find something. And my dad taught me that and then you're elevating their self esteem all the time instead of diminishing it.

Jonathan Parramint  49:59

I remember hearing a phrase years ago, which was self praise is no praise. And I'm thinking that at the time, I think it's about 10 or 15 years ago, I heard it and just think it was a golfer after, after a tournament said it. I can't remember which one but I remember thinking at the time, that's not true.

50:17

No, sticks and stones will break my bones. But most people, most people who kill themselves or will leave a note and somebody made them wrong, so it is word so it's about your school days are the best days of your life. Well, that doesn't make sense. Why would nature go hey, here's a great life. The first 10 years are the best and and it's all downhill that can't be true. So you have to challenge when you question something you already don't believe it. The minute you questionably if you don't believe it, but that's a crazy belief that self praise is no praise because the truth is, if I praise you, or you praise me, I could have an agenda and so could you. But if I praise myself, there is no agenda. And so my mind will let it in because the mind one of things about the mind is it doesn't know and it really doesn't care if what you tell it is true or false, good or bad, useful or useless when you begin to praise yourself, your mind will let it in and of course it has to be particular preys on a good person unkind I've got it. I'm gifted at something. But the mind will let that in like it lets in it's a bit like if you put lotion on dry hand, your mind doesn't go where's that lotion from? Is it from proud? Or did you get it free. Now on an aeroplane, it's still lotion that's balm for dry skin, but words a balm for a dry soul. And it doesn't matter where they come from. But when they're your own words, they are much more impactful. And when there's someone else's, you may have an agenda

Stuart Webber  51:43

for us. So what's next for you?

51:48

Well, I've got my I can try can challenge in schools. And that's always been the most even the other day I went to bed and I thought, wow, I've 1200 schools are using my method, how many kids is that, and that felt really good, how many children are going to bed feeling better about themselves better about who they are, I'm better academically too, because of an RTT program. So that's very exciting. We're taking that all over the world, it's completely free. We don't charge for any of that. So if you're listening, and you're working in schools, or scouts or brownies, or after school clubs, contact Marissa beer.com We'll give you that. And my next thing is my new diet less life. I just I the whole diet is based on abuse, no punish those pounds, do a punishing workout cool food sins and naughty and say I've been so good. I've only eaten celery juice and gone running in the rain. I mean, it's all based on self hatred. The only way you can have a body you love is to love the body, you have the you know, I don't want to eat pop tarts for breakfast because that isn't respecting yourself. It doesn't mean you can't have one. But the only way to have a body you love is to love the body, you have some starting on May the seventh, this 12 Week Weight, it's not a weight loss. It's a diet less life. It's how to reset your relationship with food how to be normal about food, which doesn't mean seeing it as bad or good. And, and looking at the fact that it's not what you eat, it's What's eating you. It's not your fault diets don't work. They have a 98% failure because I've tried everything. It's a no you haven't, you've tried one thing over and dieting. And the minute you die, your metabolic rate goes down and never goes up again. And then if you get fat, it goes down even more. So dieting really screws people up. And yet we have more and more of them. And we have more fat people and ever more gyms, more diets, more healthy food and more people who just don't understand what's going on. So I'm very excited about that. That's, that's, I'm so excited because I want I want to stop all the self hatred and the abuse and show people that there's another way and it's not about dieting, you don't have to count calories, you don't even have to get on the scale. So that goes live on May the seventh our diet lists life and that's really a passion for me. So the children stuff in schools, the diet was I've had also we've trained 13,000 RTT. Those who got it in jails, in schools, we've got it in hospitals, we've got it everywhere. So that's continuing to immerse. And that's an amazing thing, because it's one of those rare careers for women, where you have independent, you know, you can pick your own hours, you can charge your own rates, you can do it around childcare, and that if you want to raise great children, all they really want is you to be present with them. That's very hard and you leave the home at six in the morning, come back at seven at night and I've got 100 emails to look at. So I always felt very blessed that I had a rare career where I could work it entirely around my child but whatever your career is, when you come in, you have to shudder and be a hunt. To present present with your kid, even if it's just for an hour, because that's really all they ever want.

Stuart Webber  55:06

Yeah, it's true that it's interesting with our son. He, we took him on a holiday just before the pandemic when he was free. And he still talks about that. That you remember when we because I was present, present present phone wasn't with me. And we went under some thing in a swimming pool. Me remember when we did this and it's like a swimmer saying to my wife like the power of like say just being present Yeah. Together blew my mind. It was like a real lesson because you think he won't be remember, it's just all day. But it wasn't, where we weren't how much it cost, how good the hotel was, or anything like that. completely irrelevant. It was the time with me and my wife. And I fitness such powerful for people to know that like, say kids,

55:54

and ask them you know, I remember picking blackbirds in my gran and making jam was one of the happiest moments of my life, my parents that we inherited the south of France, that doesn't even factor in. But little things like you know, cooking with your kids drawing with your kids being present, that's really all they want. It's very hard when you're pulled in all directions. But again, you have to make a choice, okay? I can for two hours or an hour, switch off the phone, switch off everything and just be present. Just be present with my kid because that's all they want. But when you give that to them, you give it to you. And then you learn to say oh, so when I come home, I could ask my client, hey, can you just be present with me? Can you just switch everything off getting a better wake up now the first thing they reach for is their phone, and not their plan. They come in and they look at their messages on the emails before they connect to their other person or people and it's really making people very unwell that we're doing.

Jonathan Parramint  56:51

I think one thing you do really well. And that I admire is and it's unlike other people who who I suppose offer a similar thing to you is that you give on Marissa pierre.com You give a lot away for free, which is I think uncommon. But I think it's great, because it allows everybody access to the message. And that's in an industry like yours. It's not very common. And I know that during the first lockdown, I listened to one of your hypnosis, podcasts, and it was great. It helped me so much it was struggling to sleep throughout that time. And it's just you don't get that you have to sign up for for something for a certain amount of money for a long period or something. You don't do that. So if anyone wants to go to Marissa pierre.com I think it's a really great aspect of of what you do.

57:40

Yeah, we have audios on love blocks, health blocks, money blocks are all free. Because no longer we all can't afford therapy. When I wrote my new book, tell yourself a better lie. It was actually to give Hulu can't afford therapy way of having therapy, it's got four different audios in it. And it's always like that not everyone can afford therapy. And they don't have time to go to therapy. But this, if you can do some of this, you can actually do a lot of therapy on yourself. So I always wanted to help people more, and not make it about how much I can get from there. But how much I can give

Stuart Webber  58:11

Russia is a great way to end. You've helped and continue to help, you know 1000s And millions of people. And we're incredibly grateful for the hour you've given us today your time. We wish you well with your future endeavors. And we'll be watching closely and yeah, we look forward to being enough. Thank you.

58:33

Yeah, I'm glad you mention that. Because if you go to home enough.com We give away lots of bracelets and stuff. And we also teach you because I'm very proud of the item enough movement. It just teaches you to be enough. Right it on your mirrors, right? Yeah. So in your mirrors Yeah. And I have these little bracelets that have it on I have it everywhere because its strength isn't simplicity but it really is life changing to know that you are enough instead of you're not enough because it's it's it's a phrase that you just have to change. Take out the knot. You know your thoughts create your feelings, your feelings, create your actions and behaviors so busy trying to change the behavior. But you have to change the thought because it comes first take out the knot. Keep saying I'm enough it will probably change your life. Perfect. What a way to end. Thank you so much. Thank you. That was fun.

Stuart Webber  59:23

Thanks for listening. Find out more about the charity foundation, please visit www dot summit foundation.co.uk.

Jonathan Parramint  59:30

To get updates on the progress of the foundation and to follow Stuart's journey. Please follow us at the summit underscore foundation foundation is FBM